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	<title>Comments on: Pass the Gas!</title>
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	<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463</link>
	<description>Daily Updates on Capitalism from the world's most committed Capitalist— Rick Koerber</description>
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		<title>By: freedonomics</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-977</link>
		<dc:creator>freedonomics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-977</guid>
		<description>People would be still traviling to church if they new that money was an idea, something made and imagined.  This is a perfect example of others believing in scarcity.  With the right paradigm shift they could have alot more than gas money.  Though there are many lessons learned from this article, I feel this is an important one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People would be still traviling to church if they new that money was an idea, something made and imagined.  This is a perfect example of others believing in scarcity.  With the right paradigm shift they could have alot more than gas money.  Though there are many lessons learned from this article, I feel this is an important one.</p>
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		<title>By: novus</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>novus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-599</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting article.  I agree with the points Ammon has made.  It is not unprincipled what is going on, I just don&#039;t think it will serve a long time purpose. People who value going to church will come regardless of the &quot;incentive&quot; that is offered. I especially like the point that was brought up earlier, if you can&#039;t afford the gas to come, then how do you get there for the raffle ticket? That&#039;s kind of taking a gamble I guess, if you don&#039;t win, you just gambled the cost it took you to get there if you weren&#039;t already attending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting article.  I agree with the points Ammon has made.  It is not unprincipled what is going on, I just don&#8217;t think it will serve a long time purpose. People who value going to church will come regardless of the &#8220;incentive&#8221; that is offered. I especially like the point that was brought up earlier, if you can&#8217;t afford the gas to come, then how do you get there for the raffle ticket? That&#8217;s kind of taking a gamble I guess, if you don&#8217;t win, you just gambled the cost it took you to get there if you weren&#8217;t already attending.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Ashton</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-358</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in complete agreement with your clarification...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in complete agreement with your clarification&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ammon Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-365</link>
		<dc:creator>Ammon Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-365</guid>
		<description>Jeremy said,
&quot;... it is us, the citizens and voters, who are brain-off when we take the bait and believe that they can accomplish everything they promise ...&quot;

I would alter it to say,

&quot;... it is us, the citizens and voters, who are brain-off when we take the bait and believe that they can accomplish PRETTY MUCH ANYthing they promise ...&quot; When you are referring to Obama and McCain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy said,<br />
&#8220;&#8230; it is us, the citizens and voters, who are brain-off when we take the bait and believe that they can accomplish everything they promise &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I would alter it to say,</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; it is us, the citizens and voters, who are brain-off when we take the bait and believe that they can accomplish PRETTY MUCH ANYthing they promise &#8230;&#8221; When you are referring to Obama and McCain.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Ashton</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-362</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-362</guid>
		<description>In my point of view, raffling off gas is not valuable enough to get me to exchange my time and possibly money by attending his church either.

Point well taken on the difference between being brain-off and unprincipled.

Your article and explaination appears to line up with my recent realization that politicians such as Obama and McCain aren&#039;t the brain-off ones when they contradict themselves in all of their political offerings.   No, it is us, the citizens and voters, who are brain-off when we take the bait and believe that they can accomplish everything they promise even though it violates principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my point of view, raffling off gas is not valuable enough to get me to exchange my time and possibly money by attending his church either.</p>
<p>Point well taken on the difference between being brain-off and unprincipled.</p>
<p>Your article and explaination appears to line up with my recent realization that politicians such as Obama and McCain aren&#8217;t the brain-off ones when they contradict themselves in all of their political offerings.   No, it is us, the citizens and voters, who are brain-off when we take the bait and believe that they can accomplish everything they promise even though it violates principle.</p>
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		<title>By: Ammon</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-364</link>
		<dc:creator>Ammon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-364</guid>
		<description>Your missing the point.  I didn&#039;t say holding a raffle is unprincipled.  The church was not raffling their services - religious sermonizing, they are raffling the product of someone else - the gas.

There is nothing unprincipled about raffling the product of someone else either.  It is not about the virtues or short-comings of a raffle, or even of a gimmick.  It is about trying to solve a character ethic problem with a personality ethic solution.

I don&#039;t, on a purely economic level, see anything wrong with a clergyman raffling his services, if he feels it is in his self-interest to do so.  However, any Christian clergyman would have a pretty hard time convincing me that raffling his services to increase his own financial gain is in compliance with the doctrines found in the bible, and consequently a hard sell to convincing me that doing something against his own doctrine is in his self interest as a clergyman.

I also never said that the raffle was brain-off, or brain-on for that matter.  Let&#039;s not confuse our own colloquialisms.  Being unprincipled is not always brain off, it just won&#039;t necessarily bring the results you think you want.  Brain-on and brain-off has to do with how you approach problems, and if you use reason to make decisions or not.  Violation of principle is all about cause and effect.  If you violate principles, you will experience the consequences.  If you comply with principles, you will reap the rewards.

I can conceive of several situations where a raffle would be an excellent and principled way to accomplish many principled ends.  As I have already said, a raffle is a gimmick.  It is not virtuous or destructive in and of itself.  It&#039;s just a superficial, cosmetic solution for an internal problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your missing the point.  I didn&#8217;t say holding a raffle is unprincipled.  The church was not raffling their services &#8211; religious sermonizing, they are raffling the product of someone else &#8211; the gas.</p>
<p>There is nothing unprincipled about raffling the product of someone else either.  It is not about the virtues or short-comings of a raffle, or even of a gimmick.  It is about trying to solve a character ethic problem with a personality ethic solution.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t, on a purely economic level, see anything wrong with a clergyman raffling his services, if he feels it is in his self-interest to do so.  However, any Christian clergyman would have a pretty hard time convincing me that raffling his services to increase his own financial gain is in compliance with the doctrines found in the bible, and consequently a hard sell to convincing me that doing something against his own doctrine is in his self interest as a clergyman.</p>
<p>I also never said that the raffle was brain-off, or brain-on for that matter.  Let&#8217;s not confuse our own colloquialisms.  Being unprincipled is not always brain off, it just won&#8217;t necessarily bring the results you think you want.  Brain-on and brain-off has to do with how you approach problems, and if you use reason to make decisions or not.  Violation of principle is all about cause and effect.  If you violate principles, you will experience the consequences.  If you comply with principles, you will reap the rewards.</p>
<p>I can conceive of several situations where a raffle would be an excellent and principled way to accomplish many principled ends.  As I have already said, a raffle is a gimmick.  It is not virtuous or destructive in and of itself.  It&#8217;s just a superficial, cosmetic solution for an internal problem.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy.ashton</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy.ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-359</guid>
		<description>Ammon,
Great article - I enjoyed your insight and commentary.

Question for you - why is it unprincipled for a church to essentially raffle their services?  Not all churches are &quot;non-profit&quot; and so it may be in the pastors self-interest to profit from this form of transaction.
I remember Rick highlighting a story a few months ago about a homeowner using a raffle to sell their home.  He remarked that this was a brain-on move in this housing market.  So why is it brain-on for a home seller to use a raffle to sell their product but not for someone else to do it for their service in this gasoline market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ammon,<br />
Great article &#8211; I enjoyed your insight and commentary.</p>
<p>Question for you &#8211; why is it unprincipled for a church to essentially raffle their services?  Not all churches are &#8220;non-profit&#8221; and so it may be in the pastors self-interest to profit from this form of transaction.<br />
I remember Rick highlighting a story a few months ago about a homeowner using a raffle to sell their home.  He remarked that this was a brain-on move in this housing market.  So why is it brain-on for a home seller to use a raffle to sell their product but not for someone else to do it for their service in this gasoline market?</p>
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		<title>By: Ammon</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator>Ammon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-360</guid>
		<description>Again, my point is not that the Churches are doing anything &quot;wrong,&quot; if by wrong it is meant morally wrong.

It is not my place to judge this.  I don&#039;t know the whole situation.  They very well could have done something to change their delivery and were just using the gimmick to get people to come see the &quot;new and improved&quot; services at church.

The problem was the message in the article.  It portrayed to me the message that gimmicks are a way to use self-interest to &quot;bring people to Christ&quot; and this is simply not true.

Gimmicks are a part of the personality ethic rather than the character ethic.  They are a superficial and temporary substitute for real self-interest.  They are not wrong and can, like much of the personality ethic, be useful tool in improving one&#039;s Human Life Value.  It is just important to recognize them for what they really are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, my point is not that the Churches are doing anything &#8220;wrong,&#8221; if by wrong it is meant morally wrong.</p>
<p>It is not my place to judge this.  I don&#8217;t know the whole situation.  They very well could have done something to change their delivery and were just using the gimmick to get people to come see the &#8220;new and improved&#8221; services at church.</p>
<p>The problem was the message in the article.  It portrayed to me the message that gimmicks are a way to use self-interest to &#8220;bring people to Christ&#8221; and this is simply not true.</p>
<p>Gimmicks are a part of the personality ethic rather than the character ethic.  They are a superficial and temporary substitute for real self-interest.  They are not wrong and can, like much of the personality ethic, be useful tool in improving one&#8217;s Human Life Value.  It is just important to recognize them for what they really are.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pilling</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-361</guid>
		<description>Ammon--point well taken.  If there is a problem, a gimmick will not solve anything.  As you stated, only identifying and remedying the source of the problem can change anything.

I guess my thoughts have been based in the idea that a church has a prescribed message of truth and that the world in general doesn&#039;t seem to care for that message.  This doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that the church is lacking in value--it could just mean that the world isn&#039;t even paying attention to that kind of value.  There is only so much a church can do to spice up that message without modifying their doctrine.  So, a church that wants to get the attention of a distracted world without changing their message or the general delivery of their message will have to be creative in their &#039;PR and marketing&#039;.  While I don&#039;t think &#039;gimmicks&#039; are going to be as effective as service projects or other visible displays of religion in action, I don&#039;t think they are inherently wrong, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ammon&#8211;point well taken.  If there is a problem, a gimmick will not solve anything.  As you stated, only identifying and remedying the source of the problem can change anything.</p>
<p>I guess my thoughts have been based in the idea that a church has a prescribed message of truth and that the world in general doesn&#8217;t seem to care for that message.  This doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that the church is lacking in value&#8211;it could just mean that the world isn&#8217;t even paying attention to that kind of value.  There is only so much a church can do to spice up that message without modifying their doctrine.  So, a church that wants to get the attention of a distracted world without changing their message or the general delivery of their message will have to be creative in their &#8216;PR and marketing&#8217;.  While I don&#8217;t think &#8216;gimmicks&#8217; are going to be as effective as service projects or other visible displays of religion in action, I don&#8217;t think they are inherently wrong, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Ammon Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/pass-the-gas/463/comment-page-1#comment-363</link>
		<dc:creator>Ammon Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=331#comment-363</guid>
		<description>Matt-
The difference is in the type of business in question.  A car dealership is selling a product, a church is &quot;selling&quot; attendance.  A car dealership, or any other business selling products is not so much interested in people attending anything, so much as selling their product.  A gimmick is effective for them because the temporary nature of a gimmick does not substitute for, but enhances the self interest of those that come.

A church or similar attendance based organization is mostly interested in keeping people coming.  If attendance is diminishing, it is because there is a lack of value creation.  A gimmick does not change the value creation of what is really being &quot;sold.&quot;  Once the gimmick goes away, the problem which caused the dwindling attendance in the first place would still be there.


Brad-
Thank you for your comments.  You make some important points about government.

For the record, I&#039;d like to point out that I never said that what the churches were doing is wrong, only that it is not based on principle, and will not solve what they are hoping it will solve, based on what was said in the article.

I also disagree with your statement, &quot;Is it inherently wrong to judge individuals’ free exchange between two self-interested parties? Yes.&quot;

I would say that it is imperative to judge the free exchange between two self-interested individuals.  It is this which helps us to see the value of exchanging based on self-interest.  Now, I will say that it is a violation of principle to judge the individuals who are making the exchange, but that is different than judging the exchange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt-<br />
The difference is in the type of business in question.  A car dealership is selling a product, a church is &#8220;selling&#8221; attendance.  A car dealership, or any other business selling products is not so much interested in people attending anything, so much as selling their product.  A gimmick is effective for them because the temporary nature of a gimmick does not substitute for, but enhances the self interest of those that come.</p>
<p>A church or similar attendance based organization is mostly interested in keeping people coming.  If attendance is diminishing, it is because there is a lack of value creation.  A gimmick does not change the value creation of what is really being &#8220;sold.&#8221;  Once the gimmick goes away, the problem which caused the dwindling attendance in the first place would still be there.</p>
<p>Brad-<br />
Thank you for your comments.  You make some important points about government.</p>
<p>For the record, I&#8217;d like to point out that I never said that what the churches were doing is wrong, only that it is not based on principle, and will not solve what they are hoping it will solve, based on what was said in the article.</p>
<p>I also disagree with your statement, &#8220;Is it inherently wrong to judge individuals’ free exchange between two self-interested parties? Yes.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would say that it is imperative to judge the free exchange between two self-interested individuals.  It is this which helps us to see the value of exchanging based on self-interest.  Now, I will say that it is a violation of principle to judge the individuals who are making the exchange, but that is different than judging the exchange.</p>
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