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	<title>Comments on: The U.S. Constitution: An EULA</title>
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	<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520</link>
	<description>Daily Updates on Capitalism from the world's most committed Capitalist— Rick Koerber</description>
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		<title>By: josh33</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-603</link>
		<dc:creator>josh33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Having an agreement seems like it would eliminate some inequality because anyone willing to accept the constitution would be eligible for citizenship, causing the racism we see towards immigrants from South America to be less relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having an agreement seems like it would eliminate some inequality because anyone willing to accept the constitution would be eligible for citizenship, causing the racism we see towards immigrants from South America to be less relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: CanadianCapitalist</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-602</link>
		<dc:creator>CanadianCapitalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 05:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There&#039;s a huge difference between an EULA and the constitution--an EULA will be upheld by judges in court and recognized as a legal document.  :o)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a huge difference between an EULA and the constitution&#8211;an EULA will be upheld by judges in court and recognized as a legal document.  <img src='http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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		<title>By: Ammon</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-545</link>
		<dc:creator>Ammon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-545</guid>
		<description>Legislating a safeguard is a different concept than requiring that an individual, in order to benefit from protections of citizenship, have an active part in the agreement.  This is no different than any other agreement.  It could even be self-enforcing if the agreement were held with integrity.

I agree with the concept that you can&#039;t legislate apathy and complacency away.  However, you can implement safe guards to prevent the ill effects on others.  This is the whole concept behind civilization - combining efforts and resources by entering into agreements to minimize the ill effects of the poor choices (i.e. tyranny, deception, apathy, and complacency) of others.  An individual has every right to become complacent and apathetic, just as the individual has the right to have tyranical and deceptive thoughts.  However, the moment these thoughts manifest themselves agressively in the lives of others, that is where their rights end.  Legislation is simply unable to eliminate undesirable thoughts in anyone.  Legislation should only be about protecting every individual from the agression of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Legislating a safeguard is a different concept than requiring that an individual, in order to benefit from protections of citizenship, have an active part in the agreement.  This is no different than any other agreement.  It could even be self-enforcing if the agreement were held with integrity.</p>
<p>I agree with the concept that you can&#8217;t legislate apathy and complacency away.  However, you can implement safe guards to prevent the ill effects on others.  This is the whole concept behind civilization &#8211; combining efforts and resources by entering into agreements to minimize the ill effects of the poor choices (i.e. tyranny, deception, apathy, and complacency) of others.  An individual has every right to become complacent and apathetic, just as the individual has the right to have tyranical and deceptive thoughts.  However, the moment these thoughts manifest themselves agressively in the lives of others, that is where their rights end.  Legislation is simply unable to eliminate undesirable thoughts in anyone.  Legislation should only be about protecting every individual from the agression of others.</p>
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		<title>By: Margene Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-544</link>
		<dc:creator>Margene Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-544</guid>
		<description>Interesting comment.  When I grew up I was taught in my family and even in public school that being born a citizen of the United States was a great privilege and carried with it a great responsibility.  My citizenship was never something I took for granted but your comments have given me something to think about.  Many certainly do not seem to value their citizenship or understand their stewardship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comment.  When I grew up I was taught in my family and even in public school that being born a citizen of the United States was a great privilege and carried with it a great responsibility.  My citizenship was never something I took for granted but your comments have given me something to think about.  Many certainly do not seem to value their citizenship or understand their stewardship.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnSRobertson</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-543</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnSRobertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-543</guid>
		<description>The apathy and complacency which I see is born of the increasing encroachment on the part of government into every aspect of an individual&#039;s life.  I don&#039;t believe legislating a safeguard to be the solution; as this simply works counter to the principle of individual liberty. I believe the only solution to safeguard against apathy and complacency is to nurture the valuing or love of liberty over all else in the majority of society.  Unfortunately, I believe most people will not value their liberty until after they have personally experienced a significant and inconvenient loss of it; and then, it may well require the blood of tyrannts and their servants be spilled in order to regain it.

In the meanwhile, however, I will attempt to nurture the love of liberty above all in every way I know how in the hope that my fears will not be realized and we may at least stave off, if not reverse the impending tyranny I foresee. America is increasinly less the nation it was in my childhood just 20 years ago, and though it is an unpopular opinion, it is nevertheless fully supportable by the legislative record that Republicans and Democrats are if not equally guilty, they are nearly so, in bringing to pass the destruction of our Constitutional protections and bringing us ever closer to the tyranny of a combination of socialism and corporate feudalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The apathy and complacency which I see is born of the increasing encroachment on the part of government into every aspect of an individual&#8217;s life.  I don&#8217;t believe legislating a safeguard to be the solution; as this simply works counter to the principle of individual liberty. I believe the only solution to safeguard against apathy and complacency is to nurture the valuing or love of liberty over all else in the majority of society.  Unfortunately, I believe most people will not value their liberty until after they have personally experienced a significant and inconvenient loss of it; and then, it may well require the blood of tyrannts and their servants be spilled in order to regain it.</p>
<p>In the meanwhile, however, I will attempt to nurture the love of liberty above all in every way I know how in the hope that my fears will not be realized and we may at least stave off, if not reverse the impending tyranny I foresee. America is increasinly less the nation it was in my childhood just 20 years ago, and though it is an unpopular opinion, it is nevertheless fully supportable by the legislative record that Republicans and Democrats are if not equally guilty, they are nearly so, in bringing to pass the destruction of our Constitutional protections and bringing us ever closer to the tyranny of a combination of socialism and corporate feudalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ammon</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-542</link>
		<dc:creator>Ammon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-542</guid>
		<description>David, thank you for your input.  It helped me to see the issue from a different light than I was seeing it when I wrote the article.  You make some excellent points.  It is not, &quot;We the people&quot; that are the end users.  It is the individuals who are elected and appointed as governmental officials that are the end-users.  Interesting perspective, thank you.

John, thank you for your insights.  I always enjoy what you have to say.  It is a sad fact of our current culture that many natural citizens don&#039;t educate their children about their part of the agreement involved in citizenship.  As a culture, we have become complacent and apathetic in general.  I believe this could be safeguarded against by requiring some active agreement as a requirement of all citizens.  Minors would not full citizens, but fall under the protection of their guardians&#039; citizenship until they are willing and able to take on the full responsibilities of citizenship.  There could possibly be a requirement of having their guardians&#039; approval before the age of 18 in order to enter into that agreement, or something, to allow for more mature young adults, who are ready to assume the responsibilities of citizenship early.  What say you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, thank you for your input.  It helped me to see the issue from a different light than I was seeing it when I wrote the article.  You make some excellent points.  It is not, &#8220;We the people&#8221; that are the end users.  It is the individuals who are elected and appointed as governmental officials that are the end-users.  Interesting perspective, thank you.</p>
<p>John, thank you for your insights.  I always enjoy what you have to say.  It is a sad fact of our current culture that many natural citizens don&#8217;t educate their children about their part of the agreement involved in citizenship.  As a culture, we have become complacent and apathetic in general.  I believe this could be safeguarded against by requiring some active agreement as a requirement of all citizens.  Minors would not full citizens, but fall under the protection of their guardians&#8217; citizenship until they are willing and able to take on the full responsibilities of citizenship.  There could possibly be a requirement of having their guardians&#8217; approval before the age of 18 in order to enter into that agreement, or something, to allow for more mature young adults, who are ready to assume the responsibilities of citizenship early.  What say you?</p>
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		<title>By: JohnSRobertson</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-541</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnSRobertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-541</guid>
		<description>The concept of citizenship is the concept of belonging to a specific societal group. Such membership has specific benefits and obligations.  The benefits are typically the protection of the individual&#039;s unalienable rights, as well as the individual&#039;s civil rights by the group. The obligations are to support the society in the protection of every other citizen&#039;s unalienable and civil rights as well according to the terms of membership or citizenship. In American society, the minimal obligations of a citizen are generally understood to minimally include paying one&#039;s taxes, participating in the judicial process as a juror or witness when called upon to do so, and in every other respect upholding the law. In the most extreme of circumstances, the individual is also obligated to support the defense of his fellow citizens rights including taking an active part in defending one&#039;s country and fellow citizens from its enemies, whether foreign or domestic in origin. This could conceivably include being drafted into military service in the defense of the nation during a time of war.

The benefits of membership are, put simply, the protection of not only their unalienable rights, but more particularly their civil rights -- those rights frequently afforded only to those who are citizens of a nation, not merely residents; such as the privilege of casting a vote in electing one&#039;s leaders, the privilege of owning real property (land, buildings, etc.) protected by the society, the privilege of engaging in commerce and trade or operating a business, the privilege of being elected to and holding a public office, etc.

Some suppose that citizenship comes too easily to those who attain it by the happenstance of birth, or with too great difficulty by those of foreign origin who desire it. I tend to disagree with such a notion except where citizenship is granted to the child of foreign nationals for no other reason than because that child is born on U.S. soil. The purpose of a test for citizenship, I believe, is primarily two-fold: to ensure the loyalty of the propsective citizen to their new Nation as fas as is reasonably possible, and to ensure that the prospective citizen has a solid foundational basis for understanding not only their rights, but their duties as members of their new Nation. It is presumed, perhaps erroneously, that those who are natural citizens (by birth) would be indoctrinated in such things by their parents and the educational system they subscribe to by the time they become fully autonomous citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The concept of citizenship is the concept of belonging to a specific societal group. Such membership has specific benefits and obligations.  The benefits are typically the protection of the individual&#8217;s unalienable rights, as well as the individual&#8217;s civil rights by the group. The obligations are to support the society in the protection of every other citizen&#8217;s unalienable and civil rights as well according to the terms of membership or citizenship. In American society, the minimal obligations of a citizen are generally understood to minimally include paying one&#8217;s taxes, participating in the judicial process as a juror or witness when called upon to do so, and in every other respect upholding the law. In the most extreme of circumstances, the individual is also obligated to support the defense of his fellow citizens rights including taking an active part in defending one&#8217;s country and fellow citizens from its enemies, whether foreign or domestic in origin. This could conceivably include being drafted into military service in the defense of the nation during a time of war.</p>
<p>The benefits of membership are, put simply, the protection of not only their unalienable rights, but more particularly their civil rights &#8212; those rights frequently afforded only to those who are citizens of a nation, not merely residents; such as the privilege of casting a vote in electing one&#8217;s leaders, the privilege of owning real property (land, buildings, etc.) protected by the society, the privilege of engaging in commerce and trade or operating a business, the privilege of being elected to and holding a public office, etc.</p>
<p>Some suppose that citizenship comes too easily to those who attain it by the happenstance of birth, or with too great difficulty by those of foreign origin who desire it. I tend to disagree with such a notion except where citizenship is granted to the child of foreign nationals for no other reason than because that child is born on U.S. soil. The purpose of a test for citizenship, I believe, is primarily two-fold: to ensure the loyalty of the propsective citizen to their new Nation as fas as is reasonably possible, and to ensure that the prospective citizen has a solid foundational basis for understanding not only their rights, but their duties as members of their new Nation. It is presumed, perhaps erroneously, that those who are natural citizens (by birth) would be indoctrinated in such things by their parents and the educational system they subscribe to by the time they become fully autonomous citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: David Erickson</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>David Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 06:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-540</guid>
		<description>This is a clever article. I enjoy when someone takes a term and uses it in an unconventional yet strikingly fitting way. I do see how the Constitution could fall into the category of an end-user license agreement. However, I think the conclusion gets it backwards. Who is the end-user that is addressed by the Constitution of the United States? The conclusion states it is “We the people”.
If this is the case and the people are the “end-user” of the Constitution, than who is the grantor of that license? Well it must also be “We the people”.   So it gets rather confusing at this point. Who&#039;s really in charge is it “we the people” or is it the other “we the people”.
The real end-users of the Constitution are those individuals whom serve in the three branches of our government. They take an oath to uphold the Constitution and to adhere to the license which it grants them to work within the parameters set by it. By taking the oath of office in any branch of government they swear to protect, defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States (EULA).
 “We the people” are the licensed grantor and those who serve in the seats of government are its “end users.”
The main question of this article as I understood it was to ask what does it take to be a citizen of the United States? Or in other words, how does one become “We the people”?
The conclusion stated the following
“Citizenship is something that must be earned.  It is not an entitlement because of our parentage.”
I submit that the Constitution does state that birth is an entitlement for citizenship in the United States and therefore falls under the protection of the Constitution.  In the very first paragraph it states
&quot;We the People of the United States, in Order to … secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.&quot;
The only way to have posterity is through birth.
What the real questions should be as how does one become a person as in “We the people”? And what is the difference between a person and a citizen? The way I see it, being a person is necessary and natural. Being a citizen is made and imagined.
That&#039;s why “people” ordained and established the Constitution and not “citizens”.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a clever article. I enjoy when someone takes a term and uses it in an unconventional yet strikingly fitting way. I do see how the Constitution could fall into the category of an end-user license agreement. However, I think the conclusion gets it backwards. Who is the end-user that is addressed by the Constitution of the United States? The conclusion states it is “We the people”.<br />
If this is the case and the people are the “end-user” of the Constitution, than who is the grantor of that license? Well it must also be “We the people”.   So it gets rather confusing at this point. Who&#8217;s really in charge is it “we the people” or is it the other “we the people”.<br />
The real end-users of the Constitution are those individuals whom serve in the three branches of our government. They take an oath to uphold the Constitution and to adhere to the license which it grants them to work within the parameters set by it. By taking the oath of office in any branch of government they swear to protect, defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States (EULA).<br />
 “We the people” are the licensed grantor and those who serve in the seats of government are its “end users.”<br />
The main question of this article as I understood it was to ask what does it take to be a citizen of the United States? Or in other words, how does one become “We the people”?<br />
The conclusion stated the following<br />
“Citizenship is something that must be earned.  It is not an entitlement because of our parentage.”<br />
I submit that the Constitution does state that birth is an entitlement for citizenship in the United States and therefore falls under the protection of the Constitution.  In the very first paragraph it states<br />
&#8220;We the People of the United States, in Order to … secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.&#8221;<br />
The only way to have posterity is through birth.<br />
What the real questions should be as how does one become a person as in “We the people”? And what is the difference between a person and a citizen? The way I see it, being a person is necessary and natural. Being a citizen is made and imagined.<br />
That&#8217;s why “people” ordained and established the Constitution and not “citizens”.</p>
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		<title>By: Ammon Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator>Ammon Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-539</guid>
		<description>Aaron, agreed that in order to protect one&#039;s inalienable rights, one does have to take an active daily part in protecting them, or he will have them violated and they will be de facto non-existent.

However this is not true about the Constitution&#039;s protections.  Currently, a person does not even have to know what his Constitutional rights (or privileges to avoid confusion :-) ) are in order to have them protected under the current constitution.  A man ignorant of his 5th amendment privileges, for example, does not have to even cure his ignorance in order to have them protected.  Under the Constitution it is the obligation of the court and the court officers to protect his 5th amendment privileges.  Our Constitutional privileges are not currently protected on condition of active or even passive participation.

Jordon, I agree.  A larger portion of those who benefit from US citizenship today believe that the government is some obscure, nameless entity, known only as &quot;the government&quot; to which we have some mystical duty to honor and obey under the justification of the &quot;good of society&quot; or some other &quot;greater good.&quot;  In reality, government is not an entity of any kind.  It is the stewardship each individual has for his own self-government.  What the common vernacular refers to as &quot;the government&quot; is actually just the word we use to describe the agreement between the individual and those to whom he has delegated the responsibility of some of their own self-government, because it is often more effective to combine efforts to protect inalienable rights.  According to my own understanding of truth, it is only because of a contractual agreement, into which the individual freely enters, that a moral requirement of &quot;obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law&quot; is valid.  I believe this is what Thomas Jefferson was writing about in the Declaration of Independence when he wrote, &quot;That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,&quot;  Once the consent of the governed is withdrawn, there is no moral ground for any governmental authority.  Any authority assumed under any other circumstances is tyranny, and unrighteous dominion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron, agreed that in order to protect one&#8217;s inalienable rights, one does have to take an active daily part in protecting them, or he will have them violated and they will be de facto non-existent.</p>
<p>However this is not true about the Constitution&#8217;s protections.  Currently, a person does not even have to know what his Constitutional rights (or privileges to avoid confusion <img src='http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) are in order to have them protected under the current constitution.  A man ignorant of his 5th amendment privileges, for example, does not have to even cure his ignorance in order to have them protected.  Under the Constitution it is the obligation of the court and the court officers to protect his 5th amendment privileges.  Our Constitutional privileges are not currently protected on condition of active or even passive participation.</p>
<p>Jordon, I agree.  A larger portion of those who benefit from US citizenship today believe that the government is some obscure, nameless entity, known only as &#8220;the government&#8221; to which we have some mystical duty to honor and obey under the justification of the &#8220;good of society&#8221; or some other &#8220;greater good.&#8221;  In reality, government is not an entity of any kind.  It is the stewardship each individual has for his own self-government.  What the common vernacular refers to as &#8220;the government&#8221; is actually just the word we use to describe the agreement between the individual and those to whom he has delegated the responsibility of some of their own self-government, because it is often more effective to combine efforts to protect inalienable rights.  According to my own understanding of truth, it is only because of a contractual agreement, into which the individual freely enters, that a moral requirement of &#8220;obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law&#8221; is valid.  I believe this is what Thomas Jefferson was writing about in the Declaration of Independence when he wrote, &#8220;That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,&#8221;  Once the consent of the governed is withdrawn, there is no moral ground for any governmental authority.  Any authority assumed under any other circumstances is tyranny, and unrighteous dominion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Curzon</title>
		<link>http://www.freecapitalistdaily.com/2008/09/ammons-citizenship-article/520/comment-page-1#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/?p=402#comment-538</guid>
		<description>I think too many people wouldn&#039;t know the difference if the country became a &quot;benevolent&quot; tyranny. The don&#039;t see themselves as having any part in the government. It&#039;s just this big thing that sits on the hill and they are subject to it. Having a responsibility towards the government (like Jefferson&#039;s wards and townships model) would go a long ways towards helping people understand government&#039;s responsibility towards them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think too many people wouldn&#8217;t know the difference if the country became a &#8220;benevolent&#8221; tyranny. The don&#8217;t see themselves as having any part in the government. It&#8217;s just this big thing that sits on the hill and they are subject to it. Having a responsibility towards the government (like Jefferson&#8217;s wards and townships model) would go a long ways towards helping people understand government&#8217;s responsibility towards them.</p>
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